Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Independence by Design podcast, where we discuss what it means to be a business owner and ways to get unstuck from the day to day so we can design a business that gives us a life of independence.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Today is episode 500, which is really exciting. Congratulations. 500 podcast episodes is huge. That's a really big milestone. I guess my first. I have so many questions. I've been writing them down, like, for the last. Well before we hopped on, like, an hour or so. But I'll start with what made you want to start the podcast in the first place?
[00:00:38] Speaker A: So that way, if what I was doing didn't work, a bunch of people know who I was so I could get a job.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: All right, that's a good reason.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Did I ever tell you that?
[00:00:47] Speaker B: No, no, that wasn't the answer I was expecting either.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: It was a hedge for what I was doing.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: That's. I didn't expect that as an answer. All right, so what were you doing at the time that you started the podcast?
[00:00:59] Speaker A: It gives me a stomachache to even say it out loud. So it would have been 20.
So I. I'll tell you the inception story. So I was on the beach in Fort Lauderdale with Megan, and it was over Christmas, between Christmas and New Year's, and it was our last vacation alone because we were gonna do in vitro that spring. So we were like, okay, this is the last hurrah. While I was sitting on the beach, Kim. And we were 10 days. So we were like. I mean, we had no worries. It was so ridiculous. I mean, was sitting there reading. I'm like, okay, so that would have been between 2016 and 2017, and we sold in 2014.
And for the last 18 months or so, I was doing wealth management, which, again, like I said, it gives me a gross feeling. I just, like, it was not.
Not my favorite part. And it wasn't working at all. Like, the whole business model was totally screwed for me at the moment, because I wanted to.
I was told, like, hey, personal cfo. I'm like, that sounded cool. I had no idea what compound interest was. I had no idea how money worked. We had just sold the business, and I quit after 60 days with no plan. So I was like, I'll do that.
So I went and got my series 65 in two weeks. I'm like, okay, I think I can figure out how to grow this personal CFO. Well, I did that for 18 months, and I realized that if it's 1% of assets under management, that's 10 grand. If it's a Million bucks. I have to spend $10,000, which was like, mailers and all these things, talking about all the ridiculous, you know, wealth management pitches that you'd get for being a fiduciary personal cfo. And then it would, like, I'd spend the money, and then it would take me 18 months to get the million dollars. And then you build quarterly. I'm like, so the whole. Like, I spend 10 grand, and then it takes 24 months for me to get. I'm like, I'm broke.
Like, I'm gonna spend all of my money, which I'd already spent, like, 150 grand at that point, trying to build this thing up. So if I'm sitting there on the beach going, I am fucked.
Sitting there going, like, I'm completely incapable of working for other people. Like, my personality does not reconcile with having authority over me. So it's like, what am I going to do?
And so this. I was listening to this podcast about podcasting, very meta. And I was like, this guy was like, all you have to do is ask someone if they want to be on your podcast, and nine times out of ten, they say yes. I was like, that's a conversion rate that I'm down with.
And the whole thought process was by learning about things that you want to learn about within your ideal client profile, with the network, and the things that you're doing, which is business for me, you get to talk about what you want to with the people that you like and respect or are interested in who you can't have coffee with every day.
Because people, if you just say, hey, you want to. Can I borrow some time and have some coffee? They're going to say no. But if you say, hey, you want to be on my podcast? And then you can showcase them and their expertise, they say yes.
And so I was like, that all sounds like good business development for. And then at that point, I had started, and I was transitioning into a consulting firm called Growth and Exit Planning Collaborative, which is a version two out of the four or five that I was at. I was like, well, that'll be biz Dev, the people that I want and the network and everything.
And if this totally fails, a lot of people will know me, and I could go get a job without having to tell everybody I'm looking for a job.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: That's. That's a very interesting inception point. So what. What did you decide? You wanted to talk? So you said. You said you get to talk about what you want to talk about. Right? When you started the podcast, when you first started out. What did you want to talk about?
[00:04:45] Speaker A: The podcast original title is called Life After Business.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Life After Business.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: And then I realized after about a couple years of that, everybody thought it was like a death retirement podcast.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: It does sound like that.
That's exactly what came to my mind when you said it.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Just picturing the first description of the podcast and then also the first album cover was me and my hard part. I'm just like, all of it.
So what I wanted to talk about hasn't changed. And it's a shitload of stuff. I mean, it took us 45 minutes to get started here because we were talking about a lot of random stuff. I like to know how the world works and why I'm here and how I fit into it.
And I found business as the best vehicle because when I was an owner at Imaging Path with my dad, it was like, okay, the business was this huge sandbox of self actualization because, like, everything that I had an idea on, I could see the magnification and the ripple effect into the company, into the culture, into my clients, and then I could see a tangible scorecard of, like, did it work or not?
So it became this, like, what I loved about my family business. It was like I would be listening to a podcast or a book, driving on the way to the office, and be like, I have an idea. Let's try it out. Like, talk to someone. Come in. And then it was like this conveyor belt of, like, watching the ideas go into the wild. And then the feedback loop was success or not, whether it was new sales, new proposals, new product offerings. And then the scorecard was the financials. And then I was able to do whatever I wanted every single day.
So I just wanted to know, how did everybody else manage that situation?
And so it started with the, like, the story arc of the podcast. It was other owners who had sold because I wanted to be like, did you have any plan? Because ours was real fucked. And like, it was like, wow, lots of people don't have plans. And they had no idea what was on the other side, and they had no idea how the money worked, how valuations worked, why the company was important to them. They had. They were burnt out. And like, all of these things that I went through, so many people also had. But I also wanted to know the mechanics, because I was like, okay, so did other people have a plan that was intentional? The answer was generally no.
And then I wanted to also know, how does this work with a little bit of the foundation of money? I had gotten so sold in 2014.
And then this is end of 2016. So I started with the wealth management stuff at the end of 2014.
So call it, like, I'm like, 18 months almost round in 24 months into trying that thing out, which had generally worked, but not. Was not my deal. So then it was like, okay, I have enough of this mechanical understanding that I was like, okay, I need to. Like, I'm so sick and tired of, like, looking at all the suits who had all the power.
And it just bothers the shit out of me because it was the same experience that I had at the family business. Like, okay, so I have to go to you for my destination and my destiny.
So the banker will come from the heavens and be like, you get a loan or not? And then the wealth manager will be like, I'll tell you whether you have money or not. And then the attorney's like, I'll tell you whether you're fucked in the legal system or not. And then the CPA is like, by the way, you may or may not go to jail with the irs. When no one had any good explanations.
And I was like, I don't like any of those answers where it's just your authority and your tyrannical oversight over my destination and my destiny. And so I was like, I'm going to learn all of this so I don't have to listen to anybody.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: All right? And so there was born the podcast that led us today. That was 500 episodes later. So when you started episode one, think back to yourself.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: Oh, I know, exactly.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: I'm really curious still out there, would that, Ryan, episode one, think that you would be where you are today?
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Generally, yes.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: How so?
[00:08:55] Speaker A: I didn't think it would take as long or I'd have as much pain as I did. And I'm just so freaking stubborn and so relentless and committed that I think I got here and I think I knew that about myself, as in, like.
Like, you and I were talking before we hit record. Like, the life that I've designed right now, I could not be happier.
And then in. To kind of sum it up, like, this is the. I mean, this has been my vision from day one for myself, which is also what I want for others, is, like, I wake up and I get to talk to the people I love most about the most interesting problems on the planet.
And I know that what I'm doing is things that I'm good at and I enjoy and what I'm good at and what I enjoy doing with my time provides value to the People that I value and respect most and the people I value and respect most of the builders in America and across the world, the entrepreneurs who took all the risk, who have all of the risk and should get the reward and should have independence, who also have the ability to give the ripple effect into their employees and to then their customers. So back to my noble aim is like, if I can have the highest amount of impact and the most amount of people over the longest time span, that's something I'm highly addicted to and I enjoy with my time.
And that's what I knew I wanted to do. I experienced that little micro sarcosm at imaging path of the sheer amount of impact that I could have on making people's lives good while I was doing what I loved.
Because I woke up every day and my I got to build a great culture with people that got to wake up and eat shit and have fun. Like when I say it's like hard work where business is hard, but like, that's why I love working with you. We wake up, we randomly banter about random stuff and then we get to work and then we randomly banter about stuff, but like we're having fun, we're being sarcastic, and we are watching value grow.
And so when I experienced that, I wanted to have that again because I felt like the rug got pulled out from Underneath Me in 2014.
And it was just like, that sucked. And like I thought endlessly for those couple, I mean, for 12 years now, how do I design that for myself without being subordinate to tyrannical authority?
And the options are not very much. Kim from my like, based on what I deemed as important, because I would have had to in order to get back to where I had 115 employees, 20 million in revenue. That level of infrastructure, it's borrow a shitload of money from a bank who owns you or do raise the money from investors with an expectation of a rate of return in a specific timeline, then borrow the money from the bank, and then now you've got two people you have to bow down to.
And then I'm doing things. Then I have people telling me how to manage my morals and values and manage my time. And I just like have a 100% allergic reaction to anybody telling me what to do and what to think about.
So when I was at that podcast, that first podcast, it was like, this is my vehicle to go find that dynamic. I didn't know what business model I was going to land on. I didn't know how it was going to be packaged up. But I knew that if I went out on a journey to talk to the most interesting, successful people I could find, and that was business owners who were the value creators, and those were the technical advisors who helped them.
And there's really good people out there. There's a lot more freeloaders than I would like.
There's the value creators, then there's the value creators in the advisory community I think are really important.
But I'm like, okay, well, if I learn how all of those people make money, how all of them are going through this journey, then I can find the right levers for myself without having to sell my soul to have the impact and the fun that I wanted to again.
So that's what I wanted when I was at that moment recording that podcast. And we can talk about the very hilarious specifics about it, but there's no world that I live in where that doesn't happen. It's just more of like, how broke am I in order to actually get there?
[00:13:18] Speaker B: All right, well, and I love that. So we can talk about. You said there's some funny things with the first episode and then other things that are in my mind. You mentioned it took you longer to get to here than you expected and it was harder than you expected. So I'd love just to double click into that and hear from you, like, what were some of the, like, why do you think it took longer? Why do you think it was harder than you expected? And what were some of the lessons you learned along the way? Those are just natural questions that come to mind. But I don't know if it makes sense to talk about some of the funny things in episode.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Oh, just like. So it took me two weeks to edit the 15 minute intro the first episode because, like, anybody ever record themselves and hear their own voice, it's awful.
That feedback loop.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Every time I listen to it, I feel, I'm like, do I really sound like that? Like, I've. For a few times, I'm like, do I really. I feel like I sound like a man. I'm like, why do I sound like a dude?
Don't understand.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Oh, and like, you know, for anybody thinking about, like, putting themselves out there, I don't know what else to say other than, you just got to try it. Like, I hated public speaking. I remember I, I, I blacked out, like, and I froze in front of one of my public speaking events in when I was at the family business. So, like, I get it. And like, and so it was terrifying listening to my own voice. And then you Publish it.
No one listens. And you're like, wow. I was stressed out a lot about. No, no one cares. People only care about themselves.
I was like. So like, it took me 15.
It was 15 minutes, took me two weeks to like edit it, record it and do all this shit. And I had like mixers and all this stuff. Because that was before you could like, boom, do like, zoom didn't exist. It was like Skype the bloop, bloop, bloop. And then like the 17 softwares and a mixer, all because I wanted to post some 15 minute MP3 into the cloud.
Oh my God. Just like. So I have pictures of it still. Like my first setup in the boxes and all that stuff. But like wild experience technically. But then also like, I get a stomach and people like, oh, I listened to episode 50. I'm like.
And like, it's really interesting just being like, hey, I'm publicly growing in front of people. I don't know. I'm not perfect. I know that. My, my family knows that. So I don't know. That's just my two cents. And then the other. What was the other question? Kind of the journey arc or.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Yes, and I'll get to that. What popped in my head when you're saying all of that, just to emphasize a little bit more is just be yourself, right? I think through all of that is what you're saying. Like, you are just. You are who you are and you're always looking to continue to grow and improve. Like I always say, like, tomorrow, Kim, I hope is better than today Kim. Right. I mean, that's just being okay with that.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: I do agree. And like, that's, you know, I put out one of the podcasts of my understanding of life, God and money, which is probably the most different of the episodes that have been out of the 500. A lot of good feedback on that. And it's like I have a. You know, how I manage myself is if I look in the mirror and some really terrible thing in my life is going on.
And I knew it's my fault. And I knew earlier in my past, Ryan, that what I was doing was wrong and it still ended up bad.
How horrible I am to myself mentally is not worth the torture of doing the shitty thing in the moment.
So then it's like, all right, I'm going to be harder than anybody else. So as long as I try hard every single day, I'll be fine with myself so that everybody else can be fine with me. And I think it's really tied into Also that what, you know, freedom and independence of like, dude, when people raise money and when they have debt and when they have, you know, customers and their employees, they're silent, they're. They're silently silencing themselves and censoring themselves because they're scared of being themselves because of how it would impact their customers, their employee, their vendor, their banker, their investors.
And like, I don't have any of that. Like, we have customers that have to, like, I want to impress. But, like, what I think is really cool about the podcast and what we're doing, like, they're all in on us. Like, we're trying. We're not perfect. And that's what I just want that level of acceptance from the outside world and for everybody else, knowing that I'm going to try the hardest.
And that level of independence is self responsibility and self sovereignty, not because someone else is pushing it onto me. And I remember in one of the ventures I had, someone said that I shouldn't wear a T shirt.
Like, I had some choice words.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: Do you own other shirts?
[00:17:47] Speaker A: You go back and I have got like, nice collared shirts and, you know, stuff. But like, yeah, I know there's a major divergent there. But like, it's part of, like, what's fun about the podcast too. And then again, what's really interesting is that people, like, I could not even imagine my life without it because most of the people I work with or know are because people listen and like who I am and the things that I'm doing.
So it's a, it's a beacon and a magnification for like, hey, here's what I'm about. If you resonate with it, we can go on the life journey together.
So, I mean, it becomes this real fun, self reinforcing loop. But that was terrifying. And that was a journey over a decade of like, I had partners that canceled us because they didn't like what I said on the podcast. One, one episode cost me 30 grand.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
Yep, yep. Nice little banker that couldn't. Yeah, yeah. Long, long, long story there. And like all these different other situations where it's like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm trying. I'm trying to tell the truth. I'm in search of the truth. Trying to tell the truth. And if you can't handle the truth, I know it's good.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Movie classic.
All right, so my other questions were, so why do you think it took you longer than you originally thought?
And you said that it was harder than you thought, so just a Quick why you thought it was harder and then what were some of the key lessons that you learned along the way?
[00:19:16] Speaker A: With the context that I was given in the business and the podcast have kind of been all tied to my journey.
So like the podcast has been the through line to three different companies.
But the if everything I've said up until this point was the main thing, back to your question about when I first started it. What was my intention and my thought? And I do, I did expect this outcome. Didn't expect the three different companies, didn't expect the multiple rebrands, didn't expect multiple business partners.
None of that was expected.
Way harder, cost me way more money, way more sleepless nights than I ever would have thought.
But the podcast was the good through line to keep my network and my consistent banging of the drum of the same problem, the same things that I care about while it iterated over time. So I like, I think if so, I mean we could, it'd be interesting because I know AI's got all 500 episodes. It sees the through line right. Yes, there was nuances and differences and different like shades or different clothing of it, but the, the topics, the intention, the ethos was all the same.
What was really effing hard along that way was how do I make money while being free, being independent and sovereign while helping the owners that I want to help without feeling like I'm part of the toxic system that, that I felt aligned with.
And so there's so many different dysfunctions in the advisory community with people that are trying to solve the whole problem for the owner. Well, the reality is the owner and the entrepreneur in the, in the economy makes the money and everyone has to make money off of them.
So people can. We have the, we have the consumer based economy and then we have businesses that help provide products and services to the consumers. That's how the economy works. So where someone's at in that value chain is important and I wanted to help the value creators.
And that became a really different and really terrible and challenging dynamic of like how do I charge what's the right product and service business model? I mean you and I are like literally doing this as we kick off and are in the middle of our strategic planning.
It's in our strategic planning milestones.
So finding that alignment between business model, how I charge what I deliver in a way that's repeatable and scalable, that aligns with my time, cash and wealth. I mean living and breathing. The IBD OS was really interesting. And as a final, as I'm thinking out loud here. So Jordan Peterson wrote this book called Maps for Meaning. I think that's how it's called. Really? Oh, my God. Unbelievably dense.
Don't recommend it for my leisurely read. But human beings, when we articulate our values, Kim, it's after we've lived them out.
It's not before.
So we are only able to articulate and systematize what we've done after we've done it. What is important to us. Well, we can only figure that out by learning what we did.
And then we try and we iterate and we iterate.
So, like, I don't think there was any other way besides the path that was taken because IBD wouldn't have ex. Wouldn't exist if it wasn't for that journey. So I wouldn't give up all of those different iterations. But I have very specific opinions about why various business models and various products and services didn't fit me. Didn't fit the way of all of those alignment. So it was just that natural journey of trying to figure it all out. And like, here we are with ibd, OS and a coaching business model that actually finally makes sense, which is a relief because it was a lot of stress, but I think the journey was worth it.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: I agree with you 100%. I think everything that at least that you've explained to me that you've gone through on your journey has definitely shaped ibdos and made it as amazing as it is. I call it your brainchild all the time when we're talking. So, all right. Current Day Ryan can travel back in time to first episode Ryan, what would
[00:23:30] Speaker A: you say you'll quit drinking eventually? Just kidding.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: All right, so maybe 1000 episode Ryan will come back and say, current Day Kim, I'll quit drinking someday.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Okay, I'm just kidding. What was the question?
[00:23:48] Speaker B: What?
[00:23:50] Speaker A: That was the first thing that came to my mind.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: I love it. I thought it was great.
This too shall pass.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: I'll quote my grandpa because he was both my grandpa's one was actually recovered alcoholic. The other one never finally ended up there. But my grandpa said, you know why I drank so much, Ryan? Like, why grandpa? He goes, I knew I'd have to quit someday.
I was like, typical Tansom. Like, as fast and as hard as we can go until it's over.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Making up for it before it went away.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: Okay, so Current day Ryan goes back and talks to. Okay, what was
[00:24:28] Speaker B: episode one, Ryan? What would you say besides someday you'll quit drinking,
[00:24:36] Speaker A: enjoy the journey and be more Peaceful with yourself along the way.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: I like it.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: Which is why you can quit drinking.
No. Yeah, be. Enjoy it. I mean, it's.
It's so difficult to be in the unknown, in the moment.
And so I don't know. I haven't figured out a way to process that other than that's why I spent 12 years learning the game, so I can be comfortable with the intermission.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: I like it. It reminded me of that quote you sent me. I don't have it pulled up right now not too long ago, but I had shared it in our recent quarterly workshop. Be forgiving with your past self. What's done is done. No sense in beating yourself up about it. Be strict with your present self. Win the moment in front of you right now. Be flexible with your future self. There are many paths to success. Success. You don't need life to be a certain.
And then it cuts off. I got.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: I should tattoo that on my face for myself.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: You don't need life to be a certain way to live. Well, that was the rest of that.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Love it so much.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: I think they're amazing.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Then there was a Psychology of Money by.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that one was in here.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Because I think that that does such a good job of, you know, while you're pulling it up, like, and this will probably be part of the, the, the line of question you want to get into like time and money, how those all kind of interconnect. Because I've watched so many people chase paper wealth because like we could have a whole five day series of what is money right? But like paper wealth while destroying their health and their relationships in their life.
Or they think it's a pot of money at the end, which is that whole exit that so much of this was about exit for so long because that was my first part of the journey. And then it came down to like organizing your business around what the hell you want.
That could be anything. But I think the anything really needs to be thought through of the impact, the noble aim and that context framing.
So then you can organize your business around it. Because like there's. I've interviewed a lot of people with a, with a B behind their net worth who like, you couldn't pay me to trade lives with them.
And that like, has been some of my, like some of my biggest takeaways of having a podcast. And the specific people that I've interviewed is like, oh my God, is it like, what a blessing that I am turning 40 this year and I have watched 500 of the most successful people who are generally older than me, who are more experienced show me what to do and what not to do based on what works or not work or what works and what does not work according to what I think is important, not what they think is important.
So I'm like, whoa, look at that whole situation. That is a dumpster fire. Don't do that, that and that and that. Like, that sucks. Or that's really interesting. That seems to really work for that person. And then synthesize it all into a framework that I can manage myself.
So that way every single day I know I'm focused on the right things based on what I think is important.
Because I watch so many people, I'm like, you're fucking 70 and you chased the wrong thing for 60 years.
Like, what a bummer. And that's all you got. It's my life in weeks right here.
This is how much time we got. So that I've got myself to 100.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: Each one of those is a week. And so I've got like different highlight things or things that were important. They're all life things with when we had the kids, when I got married, when I met Megan. And like I look up to that and then I look up to my annual.
I look at that, look at my annual candidate. That's all we got is time.
So you get to the end of that and you're like, wow, I had the wrong goals. Well, that sucks.
You pissed away the only thing that matters.
Well, and I watch people do that. And so it's like I think about time as the journey. We're on a roller coaster because it's fun not to get to the end. We read a book because it's fun not to get to the end.
And we need to make sure the vehicle, which is our body is healthy along the way.
And we're spending the time with the people that we love doing things that are most interesting. And I think it's going to tie to the other quote you've got.
And money is the vehicle to help make sure you can stay sovereign along the way. Because you need cash flow and you need wealth. Wealth is to protect the cash flow and cash flow is to protect your time.
So it becomes that self reinforcing loop. And when people have the wrong goals and it's just one of those, oh my God, it can be a total disaster.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: I love all of that and I do have it up. But one of the things that pops into my head, so you mentioned in there that you've seen other people get towards the end of their journey. And you're like, oh, like that really sucks that you've been focused on the wrong thing the whole time.
But there are many, many people that still do see other people in that same instance and it doesn't resonate that way.
So why do you think you have that self awareness or that visibility into the proper reality versus just, well, that sucks for them. And I'm going to keep being a drone and doing this my way. Like what do you think gives you that drive or that visibility that other people don't have or don't see?
[00:30:25] Speaker A: I'm tracking the question, thinking about the best way to re articulate the question so I can answer it in a way that feels appropriate. Like, everybody is living their own life.
I.
With my daughters, I'm constantly having to share with them, like, quit comparing yourself to each other, for God's sakes. What's fair? I'm like the fair referee. So back to like fairness and like what, what life is all about is live your freaking own life.
And so like, whatever you think is important, you shouldn't necessarily project onto everybody else.
So you gotta live your own life, run your own race. There's all these different things that I have to explain to my daughters. So by no means am I telling everybody what they should do. I don't think I should tell anybody what to do. What I can share with others is I've tried a lot of stuff and there's that whole fuck around, find out matrix. I live Life on a 10 out of 10. I will fuck around and find out as fast as humanly possible. And that's what the podcast is about. Because I don't want to waste a bunch of time. And if I'm focused on the wrong things and the wrong things that don't work, that's going to suck.
And so I believe though, in that journey I have found fundamental truths that I believe to be true. People could argue with them and I'm happy to debate the truth. And that's why I like philosophy and Socrates and Aristotle and I really enjoy, I mean, I had a theology minor and all because I want to debate the truth. I really enjoy trying to determine, like, what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? I do believe there is a fundamental truth and I do believe that philosophy and theology will get us to the fundamental truth. And like, there are fundamental truths of physics. You drop a bowling ball off a roof, it falls.
So there are, there are, there are physical fundamental truths And I think there are moral and spiritual fundamental truths. How you package that up into specific religions is a different. Again, those are all nuanced conversations. But if we just talk about, like, the fundamental truths.
That has been my drive of, like, what's true? Why am I here? What's the point? What should I be doing so that way I don't fuck up that whole timeline.
Like, and so I got that self awareness over time, trying things out.
And there was a podcast I was listening to recently that was all about God, which I. It was this guy named John Lennox. Thank you, Reed. He was putting me in touch with that. I don't know if John would appreciate my swearing. But anyways, besides the point, we can talk about the Ferrari as many times. We can philosophize about the Ferrari, we can talk about the shape of the Ferrari, we can talk about the color and all that. Like, how fast it can go. And until you go and get in it and hit the gas pedal, you can't experience it.
So, like, we can talk back to the maps of meaning. Like, we can talk about how things are, or we can do it.
So, like, we keep. I keep, I keep coming back to experience is the point.
And if we then design the best experience, that is also the point. Well, the only way I can design the best experience is if I understand how it all works based on what I think works. So then, like, the pursuit of the fundamental truths and the fundamental first principles had to be part of that, because if I'm designing a game for myself and it's based on false realities, I'm going to only disappoint myself.
So there was this weird kind of iterative inception point of what's the truth? Try it on. What's the truth? Try it on. What's the truth? Try it on. And then it's trying to engineer this video game for myself and then sharing with people what I think is working or not.
And I get really excited about that feedback. We've been sharing it with people that I find are closest to me. As you probably know, it's like, guess what new thing?
I did things. This is what I found out. What do you think?
And I get addicted to that.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Well, I love it. All right, so what are some of those fundamental truths?
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Ooh, I think experience is the point. I think we need other people in our life and we rely on other people. And I think we can only manage so many relationships. So that's why I like the Dunbar's number. So if, like, if the. If my meat suit Is our vehicle for my hundred years and experience is the point I think trying to be the best I possibly can be to reach my fullest potential. To impact the highest amount of people over the longest amount of time period is the archetype that makes sense. And that's the archetype of Jesus. Like can we impact the most amount of people over the longest time span? Well, that requires the biggest amount of sacrifice. And then that sacrifice, which is the doing the hard work becomes meaningful. And meaning is what actually brings joy.
And what's really interesting is that to actually tie it into biology.
Dopamine is what it is. The addiction. The more drug, which is my favorite. If I can tie that to the addiction of providing value for others, then I can get addicted to the best part of life and like it can be a healthy addiction. So I feel like based on what I know, that seems to be very true. We're like getting things for free doesn't work, doesn't make me happy. It has to be hard work. Well, if I do the hard work for non important things, that's not fun. So I want to do hard work for important things. What are those important things? Well, doing things for people I love. Okay, well what would that be?
And then how can I do it for the highest amount of people and the biggest impact? Well, business owners who also have hundreds of employees.
And so it just became this like feedback loop of trying to figure out how to have fun every single day.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: I like it. Clarifying question. Before I jump into another question that came to mind through all of that. Did you say meat suit?
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Yes, I did. Thank you. Steve Schaefer.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Him and I were talking about like we're like, yeah, it's like whether it's the simulation theory or whether it's like religion. Like we're here in this meat suit in physical world and we. It's our roller, it's our, it's our vehicle until we drop dead.
And it's our, it's our vehicle of experience. And it's. It's for meat.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: I thought so I just wanted to make sure. I was like, wait, you were very correct correctly.
That's funny. Okay, so then if those are fundamental truths that drive you, how has that. Let's bring it to ibdos.
How have those fundamental truths supported, built, formed ibdos?
[00:37:06] Speaker A: Let's get to that book. You want to read that quote by Morgan Hozel, Psychology Money. I thought this was awesome.
[00:37:12] Speaker B: Yep, I have it right here. The highest form of wealth is the ability to wake up every morning and say, I can do whatever I want. Today people want to become wealthier to make them happier. Happiness is a complicated subject because everyone's different. But if there's a common denominator in happiness, a universal fuel of joy is that people want to control their lives. The ability to do what you want, when you want, with who you want for as long as you want is priceless. It is the highest dividend money pays. Use money to gain control over your time, because not having control of your time is such a powerful and universal drag on happiness. The ability to do what you want, when you want, with who you want for as long as you want pays the highest dividend. That exists in finance.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: I don't even think we needed in finance or in that exists.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: I agree. I think it's amazing.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: I wanted to build a business that helped people that I love and respect do that. That's the highest amount of impact over the longest time period. Which happens to be business owners who are owner operators because they didn't raise the money from the VCs, they didn't go take the money from the PE firm. They're the ones that are eating crap all day long trying to, trying to do this themselves.
And it's the boilers, the commercial cleanings, or the low voltage insulation, or the nurses or the manufacturers or the steel fabricators or the movers or those are the people in our community. Like, they're just doing the hard work. And so I wanted to figure out how to build a business where I could love what I do every day. Living and breathing this while helping other people live and breathe this.
And what allowed me or what, how I figured out how to do that is take the experience that I have had with that family business where I wish that platform would have been my vehicle for long term.
And the rug got pulled out from underneath me.
So my goal is to help other people with a, with a. How do we do that?
Let's like, oh, I'm gonna do a little shout out to Cesar. Because like, I mean he's articulated where like he goes when he saw my workshop. He's like, your ability.
So this is him saying, not me to go from like, oh, philosophical God things to like, by the way, we're in a cash flow statement working capital debt, taxes and reinvestment is like, there's the through line, Ryan.
And so I don't like you read that. You go, cool. How it's not the S&P 500. Like, that's not the fucking answer. You know what I mean? Or like annuities or, you know, fiat lending. I mean, it's like the how we get there, you know, Crypto gambling or all this. It's like there's all this propaganda and all this fog of war and fog of all the bs. That's not true.
Like, because that's not the how to get there. So I read something like that, go, thanks for that. How do I do that?
And, like, I have not found a how that actually made sense anywhere.
Because it was like, you read the Forbes, you read the Inc 500, you read the Inc 5000, you go to the best place to work, and all this stuff. He's like, everyone's playing this absurd fucking game that apparently everybody signed up for. And I'm sitting there going. And I just go back to my childhood where I was the kid in class, and everybody's paying attention and, like, writing notes down, like, going, like this. And I'm going, what the fuck is everyone doing?
Like, every.
Everyone is just like, okay, taking directions. I have no idea why we're talking about, what we're talking about. I can't. I missed the first part, and I can't pay attention. So I have no idea what's going on. And, like, everyone's just like.
And I'm like. And I leave. I'm like, I don't know. I got a test next week and I got to cheat my way to the answer because, like, I have no idea what we're doing and everyone's okay with this.
And that was my childhood schooling. And so, like. And I kind of felt that way when I got into the business world. Like. So I. I remember sitting in my car, went from college, and college was like, the best days of my life. I like, well, not in general.
Very, very fun. Fond memories of the pastime. It's not best of my life, but the.
I guess I just had fun for four years. Like, which is also why I've got a grip with the college system. Like, I went. Paid 200 grand to drink and hang out with my friends and meet my wife, which was very helpful, and become a good person. But after that, I'm in the car and I'm in the real world now. I'm like this. Like, I left an awesome movie, and now I'm just in this. I'm in a suit. I'm 22 years drowning in this suit, sitting in rush hour. And I just picture the. That scene in the office space where he's just pissed off. And, like, in Rush Hour, I'm like, this is life.
I'm like, I don't sign up for this. And I just felt like that situation just kept propagating throughout my life. And I was just like, there's gotta be a way out of that whole situation.
And so, like, when I listen to that quote from Morgan Housel, Is that how you pronounce? Is it Morgan Housel from Psychology Money?
[00:42:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: It's like great. Like, so I kept hearing things like that all over the place. I'm like, sign me up. But then I would like, look to different games.
Like, what games are people playing? Well, it's the Ink 5000 game. Well, according to Jack Stack from the podcast, less than like 20% of those people can hit two payrolls. I'm like, well, that doesn't make any sense. And then I'm like, in the wealth management, I'm like, well, the only people that have money that we can manage are the corporate executives and all the business owners have no money.
Okay. And then I. And so I started playing all these games over the last 12 years, trying to figure out how to align the how. So IBD became the. I experimented with all that stuff because like every one of those stories I just told, I just felt trapped and I felt like the game that people were playing just didn't make any sense to me.
Doesn't mean that people don't have good lives and don't. Doesn't mean that those aren't good games for other people to play.
It just didn't reconcile with my world, like how my brain worked. And what I have found is that if people are still listening in, they're probably owner operators who had similar experiences. Kim were like, can't work for the man or woman, have allergic reactions to authority, have like.
So they're going to take all this insane risk to have that freedom. But then the operations absorbs them.
So then there's a different form of freedom. I have the Freedom to work 90 hours this week and have no money for payroll.
So IBD was the inception of all of the trials and tribulations trying to figure out that story I just told in a way where it's like, okay, I think I figured this out for my life and it requires that I don't have a company where I'm trying to sell the equity.
So it was a hard journey to try and figure out what's the business model, which is we can get into the business model, the coaching. We can talk about how that all spawned out of this of like the leverage group coaching over. There's A playbook. And then there's coaching, which is not services and it's not specific consulting or advisory. It's like a, it's a playbook. Here's what we think is the truth, here's how to execute it. If you want accountability and community, you're welcome to join. We got cool tools that you can use if you want. But that became the how. And there was a, an alignment between the mission vision and all that stuff that I talked about with how to deliver that. And the owners also feel that similar way that I just described, I think.
Or they're just willing to eat crap because they're still in control of their own destiny from authority. I think to some degree, even though the company and the operations and the, that machine has absorbed in what we call the owner operator trap. So it's a different, it's still not freedom, but it's a different type of freedom. Like they're doing that for a reason. It's not, it's not because they.
Does that make sense? I know I'm kind of just like. I feel like I'm drifting a little bit with my thought process.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: No, no, it makes sense. Anyway, one of the other things that popped in my head was one of the something that one of the ladies said at one of our recent meetings where she said, I have felt all alone and I'm not having fun anymore. And then there was like two other people on the group call that also agreed that they were no longer having fun anymore. And so I think that's what you're describing is that when you get into this owner operator trap, even though you're the business owner, you are not completely owning your life the way that you want it to be. And so that's why you have the whole time, cash, wealth, and it's all a trade off. And I've been using that in so many conversations with people because it just makes complete sense. Like those are the three constraints in life is my time, my cash and my wealth.
[00:45:58] Speaker A: Let's double click on that, Kim, because it'll help, it'll help me go like. And actually bring that question of like how ibd, the inception, how it's structured. Because it's a playbook, it's a philosophy, it's a mental model. I mean, very clearly the business is a leverage coaching business model. Right? That's what you and I are building. It's. We have a playbook and there's a step. You can get the boardroom blueprint, which is a program you can go off and do it on your own or you can stay in the community for accountability and coaching.
[00:46:22] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:23] Speaker A: Like, we can talk about the business models. I got a lot of different thoughts about the different types of business models, but that's how I landed on after all of that trials and tribulation. But I think what's worth unpacking before we even go that direction is the philosophy. The, you know, you had, you said the IBD operating system. What is it? And like the time cash for wealth that came from all of this search.
Like, back to what are the. What's the game we want to play? So like, I didn't feel like all these other games that other people are playing didn't. Didn't work for me. And like, I want to be abundantly clear it's okay if someone wants to play a different game. I have no issue with the person that wants to be the corporate executive that wants stability.
Like, I get it. Like, you're choosing a certain set of dynamics that according to their goals, whether it's intentional or not, it's a whole different discussion. I want people to be intentionally trading off their senior trade offs. And I think, you know, back to your self awareness comment. Like what I hope for anybody, like, there's nothing that bothers me more than people that just fucking complain and keep doing the same thing.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: Oh my gosh, that drives me nuts to get. Do something about it. Yeah.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Or shut up and go away from me.
Like, because like, I know that life's hard. I have had plenty of hard in my life. Like, I have. Like, we all got our crap, right? But like, I'm gonna stare it in the face. I'm gonna eat it like, and then move on and then hopefully get better every single day. And those are the people I want to be around.
And so that person who likes to do that could be a corporate executive, they could be a teacher, they could be a government worker, they could be a park ranger. They're just choosing their life intentionally. That's what brings me joy. Because one of my best friends from college, he could, by the way, he was my wife's high school sweetheart and the only other person she dated. And we are so different. I'm like, can you imagine? Like, Troy's a mute.
[00:48:25] Speaker B: You are not a mute.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: I know, I'm just, I'm speaking for both of us. And I've got a quota for the whole life for both of us, so he's not using up as many words, so I got him covered. But he's so content and I have so much respect for Troy because he just is in alignment with what he wants.
He's not trying to tackle the business community or business world. And he's like, dude, you're so happy and I love you for it.
So I say that because what I figured out was like, okay, all these different games that people are playing have a fundamental truth of time, cash flow, wealth, that are the biggest constraints, right? So we have all these people that are players and soccer player, basketball player, football player, and that could be the different games in business and life that we choose.
Teacher, police, corporate exec, business owner. I like the business owner game.
Okay, well, across all of those people, time, like, we.
I don't know, unless Elon, or unless, you know, all these AI companies or unless some, you know, big company figures out how to, like, decouple ourselves and put us into the digital ether.
The meat suit is what we got.
So what we need in that, so that time becomes a constraint. And the experience is the point.
In order to be free, we need to have money coming in to pay our bills.
So we need money to come in to pay our bills. And if we're not able to do that, we have to be subordinate to the people that have the money.
So I think about the time first, and then that's like, can we spend our time doing what we love and have joy with. With the people that we love? Back to. I mean, I've said it a bunch of times. And the next layer is cash flow. So not wealth. Wealth is the protection for our cash flow. Because the.
The whatever you got in your 401k or retirement savings or like the. The portfolio or it's cash or it's gold or bitcoin or real estate or art or whatever the hell you're storing your wealth in.
It's so that way, eventually you can use it to buy, to turn it into cash flow. So you can take the cash flow and give it to other people for things that you need.
So the cash flow I like. That's where I started. Like, so my through line for my whole life is like, freedom of time. And then I'd spent the last 12 years trying to figure out how to make the money that felt good, that aligned with everything that I wanted to do with my time and my goals and everything. So then there's the cash flow, and this is the whole retirement planning. It's like, well, in the 4% of the 5 million, you get 200 grand a year. Got it. Well, then there's the wealth. And the wealth has to Protect the cash flow. So that becomes the wealth, and the cash will become how you protect your time.
I'm a very big realist that if you don't have the money, you have to do things you don't like.
That's why we call the owner's roadmap the velocity score. Because you get out of the velocity. The velocity score gets you out of the trap where you're escaping the gravitational pull where you need to be in the machine earning the income. So, like, wake up, do. Wake up, do. It's called payroll, it's called the W2. But the moment that you can get on top of that heap where the cash flow is coming from, the assets, you've decoupled your time from the cash flow. And there's a process to do that.
So every other person that wants to play a game, teacher, lawyer, police officer, corporate exec, they have to save money so they can eventually not have to work.
That's the normal retirement game.
While the government steals a shitload of your money through inflation, and you just keep you going that treadmill.
[00:52:12] Speaker B: Good luck.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: Value creators and the owners and entrepreneurs can create value, value and create that machine themselves, create that cash flow machine.
So it's a. It's a more complicated game, but there's total sovereignty and freedom that's possible from that. Because you can create value, create that income, create the cash flow, and then turn it back into wealth because the company itself becomes an asset that kicks off cash to protect your time.
So I was like, okay, well, that game is really interesting. So if the time, cash flow, wealth, that owner scorecard is a scorecard for all people.
The dynamic of having an owner who has a vehicle, which is the company. You and I call it Noah's Ark.
We have an ark, which is the protecting our life and our world based on the things that are important to us. It's the cash flow that has to come from that. And we can slowly decouple our time if we have a machine that we build, which is so fun to me. So then it becomes like, okay, well, how do we build a playbook that's repeatable so that quote we read can actually be actionable?
So then we can say, okay, literally there are 27 milestones. If you do these things in order, it's gonna be really hard to fuck this up. However, you know, there's a reality that your industry or your, you know, location or your. I mean, there are certain things that have the risk of that not going well. But we have a set of a series of steps and a knowable playbook. Where my last comment on this part, and then I want your reaction is the.
That playbook became me understanding the game of ownership.
There's a lot of systems out there about operations, EOs scaling up, like how to be a good leader, managers, you know, operating processes and all these different things. Like, great. But like, how do we actually become an owner and manage the machine from up top? And how does an actual, how does value actually work from valuations?
Because if we don't know how the judge or the scoreboard works, we can't actually build a plan.
And the scoreboard is how valuations work. I mean, we're like, capitalism is a thing. It's cash flow and value and equity. So cash flow and the sustainable cash flow creates the equity. So they're back to the cash flow and wealth. It's like, well, they're the same thing. So by balancing those trade offs all together, we can have a line of sight to say, if I do these things, I will always have one trade off.
I have not figured out a way to get all three at once.
Back to your question about a universal truth.
Every choice that we have, we will give up one of those three.
You can take your cash flow and buy your time back through hiring someone or a service provider. Well, you have less cash flow. Can you afford that?
Okay, well if you reinvest that cash flow into certain systems in your company and the right systems, I know you'll grow the valuation of that company. But if you can't afford that cash flow drain, you can't have the wealth. So the cash flow and wealth, the seesaw is more cash flow today means less wealth tomorrow. So you're going more cash flow today. Or if you go, I don't need as much cash flow today for more wealth tomorrow. But you have to be able to manage that dynamic. And then how do you want to manage your time inside of that? But then there's the whole playbook around the own. Like, how do we mechanically do this?
So there's the whole three, you know, nine modules that we've got, which is a series of. I've just reconstructed and reverse engineered this playbook. So that way it's an objective truth. Like, I don't believe that these are my opinions. I believe that this is just how it works. And if we do these things in these order and this order, because this is what other people do and this is how, this is how the game works. We just got to figure out what our goals are and how we Map what we want onto that game.
[00:56:12] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I love all of that. All right, so going back to the line of questioning you had mentioned in there, wanting to talk more about the actual platform and systems itself. Is that something that you still want to dive into and chat about? Because I feel like we've talked about the why, right? The how, like how we got here.
We've talked briefly about the what it is. Like, you were just explaining, like, the playbook and what it is. We've talked about who it's for, the owner, operators. They're stuck, they're feeling alone, they're feeling beaten down, not having as much fun anymore, feeling like they're on a mouse wheel, investing a lot of time, want more time back.
Now, what is the vehicle that.
[00:56:55] Speaker A: How are we delivering it before we get there? Kim, let's. Let's unpack one last topic about the who and some of the misconceptions. I think the ownership operating system has hopefully added a layer to. And by adding a layer, it's a layer of perception.
So the podcast in the life after business, and then it was intentional growth, and now it's independence by design. So there's been iterations.
And one of the big ahas that I had because. And this is springboarding right off the time, cash and wealth. So it's a Venn diagram, and we can make sure we put some links to the stuff in the show notes. But the that that owner scorecard is the time cash on the wallet. Well, there are different roles that we play inside of those three levers.
An owner being one of them and then an operator being one of them.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:47] Speaker A: And it's really important that we take off the hat and put on a hat with the roles that we have, knowing that the time, cash and wealth is one. Ryan. It's one. Kim. But like you, we play different roles. I'm a husband and I'm your colleague. Right. So those are two different things.
And so what I learned, and it was just, man, is there so much confusion out in the marketplace that I won't get into? Because I think a lot of listeners have heard my opinions on this. But the word exit doesn't make any sense unless we have context of what role we're talking about.
So the whole world is like, you want to exit your business, and it's like, well, if someone's working in it and they own it, you need to know what you're talking about first.
And everyone's willing to jump and answer that question without answering what role? And it's just like it's a false choice. It's like arguing about whether the spoon in the matrix is gold or silver. And I'm like, there isn't a spoon.
So it's like, like it's such a, it's such a mind numbing issue for me because I think if we add that layer and that level of perspective, the question still makes sense. But it's like, are we talking about your job, Kim, or are we talking about your asset? And then how does that impact your time, cash flow, wealth, goals?
That is the level of intentionality that I think we want to say, hey, over time, I want to get out of my role but keep my company.
Because I like the impact. I like, you know, I like the ability to have the powers of, you know, impacting culture and impacting, you know, then ESOP versus family transition, all those different things that ripple off to that. So I think it's just helpful to understand that the ownership operating system, that playbook, is for the, is the playbook and how to see that dynamic.
So it's not just, oh, go in and hire more people and do more things for more revenue. It's like, no, there's a, there's an actual logical reason you wouldn't want to grow one of the guys in our boardroom blueprint right now. He's like, man, I'm not going. I'm going to do Steady Eddie for the next three years. Diversify so I can have a great life and I can get off the road.
[00:59:54] Speaker B: Sweet, dude.
[00:59:57] Speaker A: Like, but someone else might have a totally different goal and a different exit. And I've said, you know the way, the only way I can. Other analogy I can pull off of is our meat suit. If it's healthy and we go to the gym and we exercise and have good health and diet, it allows us to do whatever we want.
So if you like biking and I like running or someone else likes swimming, we don't like, we don't have the communication with each other. Like, we go to the gym so everyone can swim.
It's like, no, I might want to just bend down to get my kids.
So I think it's really important. Like the ownership operating system is outcome neutral, but really important that the game is there. Time, cash and wealth. How does the company financials and the company valuation fit inside that game? So you can map your goals on top of it. So someone might want to do an esap, someone might want to do a family transition, someone might want to do pe, someone might want to do a third Party sale, someone might want to step back and collect the distributions. Don't care as long as it ties to your like clearly articulated goals.
So I think that's super important because that who is looking? Like Darren said, I took the red pill.
It's like the ownership red pill. Once you see that dynamic, it's impossible to unsee it. Which then makes it important that you're around other people that talk that way.
Because to go sit in a CEO peer group when people are blurring all of this crap.
It brings me back to sitting in the classroom going like, everybody's just going, yay, let's go. And no one's asked, why are we here?
What's the goal?
How are you managing your trade offs, Kim, compared to Joe?
Because I don't want you to tell me what to do. I just want you to tell me, okay, what's your goal? How are you managing the time casual wealth dynamics and how does the business fit in there? So I can help Maybe. I have a lot to. I probably have a lot to learn. On how you're making the trade offs without telling each other what to do.
Is that a helpful additional context? Because it really is.
[01:02:02] Speaker B: No. I'm glad that you brought up that dynamic because it also reminded me again of our recent group meetings where it was somewhat of a, it seemed like it was kind of a light bulb moment where you were informing slash empowering the group on establishing their ownership goals first.
And it felt selfish to them and it felt counterintuitive to them because they're like, no, I should be working 90 hours. I need to be in the trenches. I need the team to see how hard I work. And like, if I'm not staying super busy and I'm not doing all this hands on work in the business, not on the business, but in the business, then I'm not proving my value and my worth and therefore I'm not being a good leader. And you're like, no, like that's an operator, that's not an owner. And so I think what you're just talking about right there with that dynamic starts touching upon that thought process. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
[01:03:00] Speaker A: Good call out. The dynamic you just described, I have found to be a massive common occurrence with people. And which is really interesting because it's why I love our group and our community. Because people are generally servant leaders.
They're selfless people. They have, they over index for their culture, they over index for customer discounts to get the customers what they want. They do the hard things. I mean, all. All of those values and attributes is why I love the people we work with.
But without understanding that there's two roles that people play, the owner versus the operator, what ends up happening is, like, those conversations that you and I just. That you mentioned that I got two or three this last week. It's like, I am done.
I want out. I'm exhausted. Well, that's because they're at the bottom of the totem pole, and they don't have time, cash flow, or wealth in a way that makes sense to them, and they can't figure a way out of that other than hitting the rip cord and getting out. And that's what my dad did.
That's what allowed the whole series of events to get into regret and wish we would have done. It's like, it's. What a shame.
And, like, I'll give it a health analogy. I'll come back and I'll tie the bow on practically how we work on it is that I see it every day. Kim, parents that are exhausted, they're extremely unhealthy and overweight, and they're on their phones, they're not getting good sleep, their diet sucks, and they can't show up well for their kids.
How's that going?
You know, like. Like, if you can't be happy and positive and be that mentor for your kids because you've been selfless and you're. You have no time because you're driving them everywhere and you're, you know, c. Like, you're literally doing everything for your kids, yet you will get to a point where you're so sick and unhealthy and so out of energy that you can't show up for your kids.
So you get the exact opposite of what you wanted if you don't take care of yourself.
Another fundamental truth that I've learned the hard way.
[01:05:23] Speaker B: I like the oxygen mask example that you give, because that really resonates.
[01:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like, hopefully that last analogy I gave was a, like, emotional tug at their heart.
The airlines will just tell you what to do. They say, put your after mask on first before you put it on your child.
That's why.
[01:05:42] Speaker B: Right.
[01:05:42] Speaker A: Like, you can't. Like, if you're passed out, your kid can't. You can't help your kid. Like, and so the way a business works is it will suck every single dollar out of that company if we don't put the constraints in, which is, what is the company supposed to be worth at a point in time?
Like, we have to start there. Because if we say, okay, the company's going to be worth $20 million because there's X amount of normalized EBITDA. And we go back and we reverse engineer that whole valuation equation and then we can say, okay, well if it needs to be worth 20 million and right now it's worth 5.8 and it's five years, how much cash are we going to have to reinvest in that company? How are we going to grow? We can mathematically see that.
And then you go, well there's no distributions. We gotta raise money from private equity. And you're like, well I want to be free. Now you start to ram into all of the goals of time and value and you go, okay, well what's that balance between point A and point B? Between here and there and what? The cash flow constraint is based on the valuation, the wealth target, cash flow, wealth. So then you get this dynamic to say, okay Kim, as the owner wants to get out of her job over time. Well, let's say your life takes 30 grand a month to live.
We need 30 grand after taxes, debt, reinvestment and everything. So like extra your money. Like you get 30 grand after everything every month. So 3, 360 grand a year that requires you to not have to work.
Well, we need to figure out when can you hire and buy your time back in the income statement over those five years while managing all of those, those levers. And so then we can see this because the distributions is the ownership and then the W2 in the income statement is the operations.
So what we are able to do by separating that those two hats is then see where in the numbers we can actually do that. And then we can peg it to the valuation, to where we are and where we need to be. And we can see all of these dynamics perfectly in the numbers and we can map our plan onto that, but we have the ability to actually move those numbers in the drawings. I always say this is the perimeter of the puzzle, this is the non negotiables, which is the time, cash flow and wealth and then it's the timeline. And you can see the actual zeros and ones from the matrix inside of those financials. So I think that helps us. I don't remember what the first part of the question was. No, I'm totally off on a
[01:08:17] Speaker B: no, I think that you were pointing out a really like all really, really good points because I had just mentioned like you were talking about.
[01:08:23] Speaker A: Oh, the math first. Sorry. So the, the company will absorb all of those distributions like if you don't in those, that three statement model have, how much does the company need to pay the ownership group and what does it have to be worth in year five? We literally mathematically wire that together.
And if you don't do that, every employee is gonna be like, I need this person, I need this agency, I need this service provider and the company will eat up all your money.
So we have to put those constraints to the operations. No private equity firm buys a company and it's like, what should we do?
No, they're like, we need distributions, we need this valuation. If you don't get there, you're fired. The public companies, every 90 days they put out their forward guidance about because like if you go buy a dividend stock and you realize that they're buying data centers, that's kind of a thing going on right now. Like, where's all the free cash flow? Oh, it's now all going into iron and steel and chips. Well, I bought a dividend company and now I have no cash flow. So those desires have to be locked in first. Then you go into your strategic planning and annual budgeting. So that way the operations organizes itself to manage those constraints.
And once we, this is where we do the top down, bottom up. We can get to a point where like in one of our clients that we were on the call with, once you have the whole plan, you're like, hey, I could hire someone right now for 20 grand a month to get my job out of here.
Maybe I don't need that 30 grand. Maybe I could just go with 10 right now because I'm by definition going to buy my time back. I'm going to reinvest those distributions into that person.
That is totally your call.
But you have all of the information right in front of you to say this or that.
I mean, so back to the empowering. Then you put your, that's the, that's the actual literal definition of putting your actions you master on first, which is, I did everything I needed to do to say this is what it needs to deliver for us. Because then you're not going to go pull the rip cord on your whole like, we fired 60 people out of 90.
That's not like something to be like. That's a hard thing to swallow.
And that's what happens when we don't take care of ourselves first is you end up in a spot that is the exact opposite of what you want. So it being little selfish every day to take 90 minutes a day to go to the gym allows you to have that meat suit that's healthy the whole time. And same thing with the company. You say, okay, this is what the company needs to provide the ownership group so it's sustainable over time.
Yep, that was a long answer.
[01:11:11] Speaker B: That was good though. That was a good one. I liked everything that you pointed out. Okay, what are additional thoughts that you want to make sure that we touch on? Because I do have like a final question that I want to ask, but I want to know from your perspective, what are some final points you want to make sure that we touch on,
[01:11:28] Speaker A: you know, as it relates to the business model? I don't know if we have to overly do it for everybody. I think we now have a lot of stuff. IndependenceByDesign IO is the website we've got now that that archive library that we're trying to put a bunch of this stuff out there. The comment that I would have about the business models, I would just want to give a huge shout out to Aaron street and talking more because Aaron was in Takimor's coaching program. And then I realized that, you know, I went down that rabbit hole. Takimora is the coach's coach.
And Aaron kept pushing me to this business model and he's like, it's your way of, like, you have a playbook. If you build that playbook, you can impact a bunch of people over time. And I went and I joined Taki's program black belt and I helped me actually build out the core independence. Then it was the three phases, the nine modules and the 27 milestones, like just that idea.
And then you deliver that through a coaching program where you're not the consultant or the advisor, you got the playbook, you're the coach and the teacher. And then there's a way to actually productize that in a way that's tied to the client's outcomes. So for us, we have that 90 day boardroom blueprint onboarding, which is, hey, you can go do this and you can go do it on your own, but like, you will have a very specific output of an owner's plan by the time you're done.
Okay, you can go do it on your own, but if you're going to stay in the community, it's coaching community and ongoing accountability and tools, right? So we have this way that then every single day, through the ongoing engagement in the community, they're showing up for Monday open office hours, our Tuesday trainings, and then we've got the IBD OS platform and software we're building out that integrates the financial Model, plus the meetings, plus. I mean, this is where it's just fun, right? Like, we're constantly making it better, and it's our little playground. But I think the cool part is Taki said something once that really resonated with me, which is all of his free marketing will impact more people than ever paid him.
And that's what I want us to do. And that's why getting you involved has been so fun, because we want 150 people. That's all we want to impact, right? It's. This is not like, we're not trying to tackle the whole world here, but, like, through this podcast, through the training, through all the cool stuff that we're doing, we want people to take and run with it. People want to come to the program because they're like, my wife goes to the gym every morning, not because her coach shows up and rings a bell and picks her out of bed. It's because she wants the outcome of feeling good every day.
So we want all of the stuff we talked about today to be the outcome. Why people show up. And their intrinsic motivation allows them to take control over their game, their goals, how to manage the players. And those players could be their family, their executives, and their operations, as well as all the advisors and consultants.
And we're helping them navigate the choices to stay aligned with their outcome in a way that doesn't totally fucking suck. It's really fun, right? Like all the other previous business that I had sucked my soul out of it. So it was that whole alignment of, like, the. The coaching program became like, oh, my God. This is how to deliver all of this in a way that still aligns with everything that I like 100%.
[01:14:36] Speaker B: And everybody does have fun. Like, every single call we're on, people are smiling, people are laughing, they're openly sharing. They're learning from each other. They're.
And you can see the progression week after week of people, and everybody's doing hard stuff.
[01:14:51] Speaker A: It's not the easy button.
[01:14:52] Speaker B: No. No, it's not. What do you always say? It's not the Ozempic pen or something like that.
[01:14:57] Speaker A: And if you're taking it, sorry. But, like, I mean, just. There's the. Yeah. I mean, my.
Because my. You know, Megan's watched this whole journey, and it's like, I keep coming back to. She joined this women's gym 18 months ago. She found her crew.
It's just a women's gym for all people doing hard work. The personalities and the energy and the positivity and the community and the Accountability.
She couldn't do a pull up. Now she can do four. You know what I mean? And so, like, every day, everyone's getting better and everyone's doing hard work. They wake up early and they do that so they can go do the rest of the stuff and they can enjoy their life. And it's just took me a long time to really like the word coach because it's not. We're not advisors, we're not consultants, we're not doers.
You have to like. I mean, Megan eats the food, she does the pull up. Right? Like, a coach doesn't play the game for you. The coach is sitting there going, like, I understand what you're going through. I understand all of the trade offs. I understand the entire game.
You know, if it's a golf coach, here, this I would try, given where you're laying right now. Here's the club I would use. And here. Oh, here's the win. You know, like, you're giving him the playbook and that's what we're doing. It's. And so, like, it's not the easy button, but there's a certain type of personality that likes that. And everybody else, it's like, you don't go play a different game.
[01:16:10] Speaker B: Exactly.
It's not. I'm not forcing it on anybody, that's for sure. Okay, Any other topics you want? Make sure we cover before I ask you my.
[01:16:20] Speaker A: What is money? No, what?
[01:16:25] Speaker B: An hour later, two questions.
[01:16:27] Speaker A: What is money? And what is consciousness?
[01:16:30] Speaker B: All right. What is money? What is consciousness? Ryan, you want to go down that road?
[01:16:35] Speaker A: Okay. You can so much your dad and be like, all right, we almost did it, Alan.
[01:16:41] Speaker B: Oh, man. All right, so my thought was, so current day Ryan is at 500 episodes of his very cool journey over the last 12 years.
Looking forward 12 years at say a 1000 episode, what would be your vision? Because you had a vision at episode one and you're living your vision.
So what is your. Is it like, what's your continued vision? Looking into the future,
[01:17:15] Speaker A: Someone asked me recently, like, when are you gonna stop doing the podcast? It's like the moment I don't want to talk to people and I'm not interested in things, which I think is when I'm dead.
[01:17:25] Speaker B: I think so. Probably so.
[01:17:27] Speaker A: So, like, it's what is really fun about the current moment, Kim, is it's kind of what we want for and kind of it's what we want for our clients. And what that psychology money quote and the other quote gave is like, just live it now. Like, what topics are interesting, who is interesting, and how does it relate to our ideal client profile in our community? Like I said, so this will maybe give.
I don't know how much of this story is true, but it's been a mental model of mine for a while because I. So Walt Disney and Roy Disney, the brothers, the Walt. I think they sold the studio from the story that I've gathered. But even if the story is not true, this is how I've articulated to myself. They sold the studios, from what I gather, because Walt was like, every 90 minutes is a story arc. There's a character, there's a problem they have. You know, like the whole deal, it got boring to him after a while.
And Roy was his partner. 5050 partner. And so Walt was like, I like the reason that he created a Disney World is because Disney World is a thing. And income comes in for the customers who want an experience.
But the exhibits change all the time.
And so Walt wanted to tinker forever, and I just wanted to build my own personal Disney World. So, like, what is the idea? What is the person? What's the topic? And what I have found is that how I organize ibd, time, cash flow, wealth is universal truth. Everything impacts it. Bitcoin, AI consciousness, money. Like, if I wanted to go off the rails and talk about something I have the ability to show the through line, people might go. That podcast episode was not for me, but it's like it was for me, so that's okay.
And I think that all of the different topics have the through line to people that want sovereignty and independence, who are owner operators of a company, that want a playbook on how to manage their time in life as it relates to a business.
And then those topics become my Disney World, where it's like, okay, I think we can throw these. I mean, it all connects because it's life. So if I go back from a thousand episodes, I just hope that it's the first decade was just, like I said, there was a little bit.
It doesn't have to be that rough. And it's a lot of work, so just having more fun tinkering around with the exhibits.
As a final note, there was the process of building Disney World, I'm assuming, and then creating the first exhibits and having the first year where everybody came in and they learned about it, and then it was the iteration after that. And that's what I want. It's just that, I mean, since Walt's dead and since Disney's public and they do the stock buybacks, I mean, the same fucking exhibits exist. I mean, that place has not changed in 30 years. I mean, like, so Walt would probably be bummed and so, like, that it should be a living, breathing organism that's changing all the time.
And so I think it's what a lot of our clients want to. Right. They don't want to necessarily make a drastic exit or out or something like that. At some point, there will be a transition operationally with their job or with their entity.
But, like, most people just want to have fun every day.
So, like, as long as we're having fun, I don't know, hopefully I come back and be like, that was fun.
[01:20:46] Speaker B: I like it. No, I think that to your point, you've been doing all the building and now you're all the planning, and now we are at, like, the building tinkering phase. So I like that it can just be a fun ride here on out.
And 500 more episodes.
I'll be slightly older, still wearing a black T shirt.
[01:21:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So many.
[01:21:12] Speaker B: I will.
[01:21:13] Speaker A: Yes.
What's your.
What's your thoughts? I mean, I know we're wrapping up here. What resonates with you? Because I've. People have seen lots of people come in and out of my life over the last 12 years.
We're, you know, hooked up, trying to figure out how to have fun together.
[01:21:31] Speaker B: What.
[01:21:31] Speaker A: What resonates with you is we don't have to go too far into it, but I'm just curious, like, what resonates? What's. What are you having fun about?
[01:21:39] Speaker B: I like, I'm trying to figure out how to put this.
The IBD operating system is the right way to do things.
And I have very high expectations for people that are in business.
Anybody with their job, like, even my daughter, like, you have a job here at the house, and you're going to do it the right way, and you're going to have fun while you're doing it, but you're going to do it the right way. And so I like that there is this program that you've put together that shows business owners this is the right way to do it. Because I feel like everybody's just throwing spaghetti at a wall and trying to figure it out, and they're frustrated. And that's where that, that's it, I'm done. Comes from, is because they try so hard. They try so hard. It's like, how many times can you run into a brick wall before you decide to stop? And you're just kind of like, I'm just going to stay in this locked in little backyard of mine because I can't make it to the brick wall. And I feel like this is how to climb up and over said brick wall. And so. And you can see the light bulb go off with the people the very first time. Like, we've had three workshops now, and every single time, there's new people in those meetings, and the light bulb goes off, and they're like, I need this. And I think that just gets me super excited because I've always had a passion for helping the world of business.
I'm a real capitalist. I feel like when I strengthen the business environment, I'm helping society and I'm helping those families, and I'm helping put kids to college that might not have been able to go to college before. So I think of the. The social impact of it. And so that's why I get so jazzed up about what we're doing together, is because we're having a positive impact in the world around us.
[01:23:22] Speaker A: And there's lots of laughs, lots and
[01:23:25] Speaker B: lots of, oh, my gosh, we should
[01:23:26] Speaker A: put the reverb in the blooper.
[01:23:31] Speaker B: We'll end the 500th episode with the blooper.
[01:23:37] Speaker A: Well, thank you for being part of this. I'm having a lot of fun, and you're. You're super fun to shoot the shit with and get stuff done with. And we've got some cool other people that are circling around the core nucleus here that I'm very excited about, and we just get to build together. It's a lot of fun.
[01:23:54] Speaker B: Yep. I agree. We should get. We should talk about getting Paul on one of our episodes here, so that
[01:23:59] Speaker A: way, yeah, he can tell the old Ryan stories. Okay. As a final closing note, so Paul, my old CIO that helped me build the managed IT services, now building out our software program that's integrating all the stuff that. The training, the financial model, the board meetings, all this stuff. And we. I was thinking about.
Back to, like, you know, thinking about your past, and So I was 27 when we sold.
So I was, like, running a $20 million business at the age of 27. When I say running, I mean, I know my dad and I had very loose titles and stuff like that, but. Okay, so.
So I. Paul was the third IT service manager that I. That I hired because I was trying to build the managed IT services.
And I was. He was. I was talking to him because he's now 51, and I was like, so when I hired you, I was 24 and you were 36.
What the were you Thinking like, you just said yes to come. Like, listen to me. Like, I didn't know anything. Like, he was like this. I mean, went through a recruiter. I had to. Paid like 40, 50 grand to hire him back then. And he's like, listening to him. Yeah, I was like, sure. Like, let's do it.
And then he came in and I remember, like, when we closed the Minnesota Wild for the managed IT services, like, we made it up. Like, I mean, we.
[01:25:23] Speaker B: We knew.
[01:25:23] Speaker A: I. We did. We delivered the services. Like, don't get me wrong, but like the whole time, Paul, I'm like, so you got a 25 year old and a 37 year old out on these meetings, like, pitching how things work and like run. I'm just like, oh my God. I just couldn't even picture that right now. And so, like, he's got his whole journey of like, I don't know how. What your mind was like, man, you said yes to that. But it's. He's. He's seen a lot of the. A lot of the different milestones along the way, and it's a lot of fun.
Yeah.
[01:25:56] Speaker B: I mean, I haven't known him long, but he seems very nice and he's very smart, and I think he's patient. He is very patient.
And he recognizes a good idea when he sees one.
[01:26:09] Speaker A: That's a really good way to put it.
[01:26:11] Speaker B: So I. And I. I think I would say that about myself and you too, right? Like, I think that's one of the things that brings us all together too, is that when we see something that makes sense and it's a good thing, we can all jump towards it.
[01:26:25] Speaker A: As a final note, the book that I gave all of our clients last year was, what do you do with a good idea?
Because it just. The whole book is so great. It's like, it's all black and white, and by the end, it's colorful shit everywhere. And it's like the idea just keeps crawling at you and knocking at you and banging you over the head, and then it just consumes you. And then you're. Ruins your life. And then you're like, fine, I'll listen. And then it blooms. So not me. Was the damn idea that wouldn't leave me alone?
[01:26:57] Speaker B: No, I've never heard of that book. I'll have.
[01:27:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
All righty. Well, we'll put all the links to random stuff that we have in here, and that's your job. So cool. And we will get back to our milestone. I think it's 15 or something. Like, or 13 as we're getting into strategic planning, I think, anyways, we're rolling into the predictable revenue module. I know. Here in the next couple of weeks.
[01:27:16] Speaker B: Yep. Looking forward to it. That kicks off on Tuesday.
[01:27:29] Speaker A: This episode is brought to you by Castos Productions.
